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alien8d · Forum Moderator Joined: 09 Feb 2023 Posts: 68

According to reports in the Broadband Reports forums, Rogers has started throttling not just the obvious Peer to Peer applications like bittorrent, but seemingly other higher data throughput applications as well.

Rogers followed Shaw's lead in implementing throttling technology to manage bandwidth by testing out Ellacoya boxes. They later started using Cisco P-Cube service engines according to promotional literature for the pCubes. The goal was to reduce bandwidth consumption, particularly on the upstream (by throttling the downstream to the point that it was useless). The boxes do deep packet searching techniques and look at the number of simultaneous connections and other ways to identify P2P (like BitTorrent) and throw away packets to slow down the transfer rates due to packet synchronization. The results are transfers that slow down to near dialup speeds for any and all traffic passing up and down the line while P2P is active.

Rogers seemed to install this technology across many of their head ends around the time they were testing out Rogers Digital Phone (their packet cable telephone technology which is similar to VoIP, but different). Rogers Digital Phone is one of two offerings now marketed jointly as "Rogers Home Phone": the other being an alternate local system provider using Bell wires on the local loop. Digital Phone, while it uses different frequencies does apparently share packet timings through the local Cable to Fibre nodes, so excess upstream traffic on the internet can cause problems on the Digital phone service.

As we all know, Rogers has been pushing their Home Phone service almost mercilessly which implies that they have a huge investment in it and therefore they cannot afford to have problems with it.

Since the early throttling it would appear that Rogers backed off throttling in some areas.

Rogers users also found ways to circumvent the throttling:

1) They used the VoIP ports for BitTorrent. Rogers also acquired Sprint Internet Phone (which is a VoIP service) when they bought CallNet (dba as Sprint Canada) and they became Rogers Internet Phone. So it was not good for them to throttle on those ports due to the fact that they would be throttling VoIP packet. Rogers and Cisco found a way around that problem.

2) They used Encryption for BitTorrent clients. This worked well for most people but only a few days ago, Rogers and Cisco found a way to detect encrypted transmissions.

3) They used Virtual Private Network (VPN) connections, through services like SecureIX which permitted them to make 1 single HTTPS connection to the VPN service which then tunneled out to sites to download / upload from. Rogers seems to have found a way to throttle these connections too.

Apparently according to one user, Rogers now will go so far as to identify individual users and throttle them on an individual basis.

So, now most users of P2P software are transferring files at speeds like dial up.

The CRTC so far has not been interested ("We don't regulate ISP services - it's not in our mandate")

The CTSC (Cable Television Standards Council) was an industry body which aimed to self regulate the cable operators, but has been disbanded.

Industry Canada doesn't seem interested since they've tossed out the idea of Net Neutrality, believing, amongst other things, that there is sufficient competition in the cable and internet industries to self regulate (they consider dialup to be valid competition to broadband).

Rogers terms of service make it difficult to protest through the legal system since you have to present two legal actions, the first being to put aside the arbitration clause, and the second being the actual legal protest.

The Better Business Bureau doesn't do anything of use for companies the size of Rogers.

The Government of Ontario's consumer watchdog seems to ignore what's going on.

There is a body called CIPPIC (Canadian Internet Policy and Public Interest Clinic) which is run out of the University of Ottawa who seem interested in taking this on.

It will take a lot of users making a ruckus to get Rogers to take note that they cannot continue to run roughshod over their customers (with a million internet subscribers now, it will take over 5000 to get noticed). It would be useful therefore if you are affected by Rogers throttling or other aspects of their terms of service (like the "we can do what we want when we want and your agreement is simply your continuing to use it"), it would be wise to bring up your concerns here where cippic can make a note of them.

Note that for the purposes of this post, the legalities of the material being downloaded can largely be ignore, but bear in mind that Rogers will attempt to apply some scrutiny on the basis of legalities like they did when they got rid of newsgrous saying that it was largely because of the amoung of child porn transferred on Usenet.

You should include things like where you are located. When throttling started and so on. Your normal speeds (use a speedtest) and your throttled speeds and any other useful information related to your complaint.

fordclancy · Posted: Sun Feb 11, 2023 9:47 pm Post subject: Bah!

If there were any viable competition, Rogers could not do this.

However futile, I think I'll be looking at any possible alternative to Rogers.

If we could get residential T1, etc., we could create local 'club' networks...

They've got us by the short hairs and they know it.

F**K!

Scorp · Newcomer Joined: 13 Feb 2023 Posts: 1

I see this highly illegal since Rogers advertise 3mb/s speeds and then give you only 1.5mb, as well as the no limits ads. Mis advertising should fall under legal watchdogs like the ombudsman who investigates illegal practices of corporations. Thats where I go to solve issues with corporations, like I did with VISA. They move pretty quick when these guys start looking at them.I am pretty sure that The ombudsman can initiate investigation based on that. I am annoyed because now any large download causes my connection to slow to the level, that web page loads in 45 seconds or more. Many times it just times out.javascript:emoticon('')
Evil or Very Mad

juliel · Newcomer Joined: 13 Feb 2023 Posts: 1

In regards to this: "There is a body called CIPPIC (Canadian Internet Policy and Public Interest Clinic) which is run out of the University of Ottawa who seem interested in taking this on. "

It would be best that you don't contact CIPPIC directly; I've been handling all of the reports that they've been receiving and we'd like you to send your e-mails to one that I created for this purpose: trafficshaping@gmail.com

I'm working with them so we can find out how many users are affected, where they're from, what applications are affected, etc. Only then can we determine what our options are (legal, investigation, etc.)

So please contact me at that e-mail address. Whatever information you share with me will only be shared with CIPPIC staff and associates.

Admin · Posted: Wed Feb 14, 2023 11:37 pm Post subject: Re: Bah!

Admin · Posted: Thu Feb 15, 2023 12:00 am Post subject: Re: Rogers Hi-speed

alien8d · Forum Moderator Joined: 09 Feb 2023 Posts: 68

Actually, in the USA, the FTC (Federal Trade Commission) has stepped up on the side of the consumer to eliminate the "Up To" speed promises. How exactly they intend to do that is a good question, but presumably it will mean that problems related to performance can't HIDE behind the "Up To" provisions, and so if you as a provider can only deliver 1.5Mbps on a 3Mbps package then you have to either work harder to fix the problem or offer a discounted service.

It will be interesting to see how this unfolds given the conservative pro-business political agenda currently in the US.

daveycanuck · Newcomer Joined: 15 Feb 2023 Posts: 5

I burned 45 minutes last night with tech support. I had the tech into a corner where he actually committed to a statement indicating that Rogers was not performing any throttling or packet shaping. His suggestion was the standard excuse that the problem must be my router (go unplug it and wait 5 minutes... blah blah blah). After not allowing him to close the call for over a half hour (after all, my problem was not resolved!) he started to back down on his statement. By the end of the night he had put me on hold and talked to his manager who confirmed that there was indeed packet shaping in place with no plan to remove it. P2P is completely unsupported he says. After more discussion we determine that the only supported service that Rogers provides is highspeed access on port 80 to 'speedtest.rogers.com'. This single webpage is the only webpage in the entire internet that Rogers will support - if you get good speeds there then they wash their hands of you. (I have this image in my mind of racks of computers, all load-balancing ultra wide pipes to a single webpage.) So the advertisements should read 'Rogers Highspeed - up to xx MB download from speedtest.rogers.com'.

If I don't get torrent access working then I'm screwed (my company uses private torrents to distribute software and data - so much for working from home...)

Anyone who says that there is suitable competition should try to get a decent DSL line in my neighborhood...

Any suggestions on the most effective way to downgrade or cancel my Roger's highspeed service so that I can get maximum impact? Ie. who do I send letters to, who do I CC... etc.??

alien8d · Forum Moderator Joined: 09 Feb 2023 Posts: 68

Department of Industry

Ontario Ministry responsible for Consumer Affairs (it keeps changing)

The Office of the President, Rogers Cablesystems

The media.

alien8d · Forum Moderator Joined: 09 Feb 2023 Posts: 68

You could consider using a VPN such as secureix which is being successfully used to circumvent the bt throttling ... It's not fast, but definitely better than dialup.

daveycanuck · Newcomer Joined: 15 Feb 2023 Posts: 5

Growing subscriber base fuels Rogers' rosy outlook
Globe and Mail - Feb 17, 2023

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20070215.wrrogers0215/BNStory/Technology/

21% increase in revenue over 2007 and still looking for underhanded ways to slice costs at the expense of the customer. Nice.

Admin · Posted: Sun Feb 18, 2023 12:13 am Post subject:

Admin

Analog-X · Posted: Mon Feb 19, 2023 11:45 am Post subject:

Imagine purchasing a Car and its advertised as "Up to" 100KM/h you buy the car and start driving but you find no matter how far down you push on the gas peddle you're car goes 60Km/h and its perfectly legal because it was advertised as "Up To"

This is something the Government would have to step in to resolve.

Its basically advertising a product that has a potential however it is not guaranteed that you will achieve or obtain that potential.

They to this "Up to" to protect themselves in the case that some household due to location/wiring etc.. will never ever reach the top advertised speeds.
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As my Constitutional Right under United States and Canadian Laws, the dissemination of the above information is considered a form of free speech. All references and examples of personal experiences are hypothetical in nature, and it is your responsibility to know whether the use of the information contained within this post is legal according to applicable laws in the country of usage.

alien8d · Forum Moderator Joined: 09 Feb 2023 Posts: 68

Actually, as it stands today, I'm not sure that it DOES require government involvement. It takes enough complaints to ensure that existing legislation is applied.

That said, certainly more consumer protection IS required against the unfair contract terms of so many of the ISPs.

Advertising standards council
http://www.adstandards.com/en/

The consumer information gateway (Federal)
http://consumerinformation.ca/app/oca/ccig/main.do?language=eng

The competition bureau (Federal)
http://www.competitionbureau.gc.ca/internet/index.cfm?itemID=17&lg=e

The department of industry (federal)
http://www.ic.gc.ca/cmb/welcomeic.nsf/ICPages/ProgramsAndServices

Minstry of Government Services - Consumer Protection (Ontario)
http://www.gov.on.ca/MGS/en/ConsProt/050451.html